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	<title>Comments for Proving the Value of Public Relations</title>
	<atom:link href="http://metricsman.wordpress.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://metricsman.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>How can we enhance accountability and prove the value of what we do in public relations?  How can we demonstrate return on investment (ROI)?  In this space we'll provide a forum for industry discussion along with news, views, tools, techniques and resources to help you measure up!</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 16:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on To Win Industry Awards Proper Measurement Is Crucial by Mariana Sarceda</title>
		<link>http://metricsman.wordpress.com/2008/04/18/to-win-industry-awards-proper-measurement-is-crucial/#comment-2325</link>
		<dc:creator>Mariana Sarceda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 04:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricsman.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-2325</guid>
		<description>Thanks a lot for such an interesting post. I'm always looking eagerly forward to your comment on metrics and related topics. You make a good point really when you talk about the confussion between objectives and strategies and the forcing of measurements to prove something else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks a lot for such an interesting post. I&#8217;m always looking eagerly forward to your comment on metrics and related topics. You make a good point really when you talk about the confussion between objectives and strategies and the forcing of measurements to prove something else.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reach Makes a Better Impression by metricsman</title>
		<link>http://metricsman.wordpress.com/2008/03/31/reach-makes-a-better-impression/#comment-2323</link>
		<dc:creator>metricsman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricsman.wordpress.com/?p=30#comment-2323</guid>
		<description>Hi Andrew,

Thanks very much for reading and your comment.  Hope all is well in my second favorite country.  I agree there are challenges to getting proper population numbers or even tight estimates thereof.  The available data is somewhat better for consumer markets (e.g. census data) than it is for B2B markets.  Estimating, say, the number of working chemical engineers in Canada is a difficult number to come by and would require some estimation or extrapolation.  

I don't necessarily agree with factoring the reach estimate by some variable of quality (e.g. prominence, tonality).  I believe there is some merit in keeping the 'opportunities to see' pure and then, perhaps, making some qualitative assessments in order to guesstimate the likely marketing impact.

For the levels of media activity by region, presumably we're speaking about regional and not national issues because anything of national interest that breaks in a particular region quickly (same hour/day/week) goes national.  It might be more straightforward to start with the audiences (i.e. are there regional differences in topics, tastes, incomes, etc.?) and then see which media channels best reach each of the audiences that you/your clients have an interest in.  

Thanks again Andrew.  -Don B</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Andrew,</p>
<p>Thanks very much for reading and your comment.  Hope all is well in my second favorite country.  I agree there are challenges to getting proper population numbers or even tight estimates thereof.  The available data is somewhat better for consumer markets (e.g. census data) than it is for B2B markets.  Estimating, say, the number of working chemical engineers in Canada is a difficult number to come by and would require some estimation or extrapolation.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t necessarily agree with factoring the reach estimate by some variable of quality (e.g. prominence, tonality).  I believe there is some merit in keeping the &#8216;opportunities to see&#8217; pure and then, perhaps, making some qualitative assessments in order to guesstimate the likely marketing impact.</p>
<p>For the levels of media activity by region, presumably we&#8217;re speaking about regional and not national issues because anything of national interest that breaks in a particular region quickly (same hour/day/week) goes national.  It might be more straightforward to start with the audiences (i.e. are there regional differences in topics, tastes, incomes, etc.?) and then see which media channels best reach each of the audiences that you/your clients have an interest in.  </p>
<p>Thanks again Andrew.  -Don B</p>
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		<title>Comment on To Win Industry Awards Proper Measurement Is Crucial by Anna Miotk » Archiwum bloga &#187; Pomiar efektów w Sabre Awards</title>
		<link>http://metricsman.wordpress.com/2008/04/18/to-win-industry-awards-proper-measurement-is-crucial/#comment-2322</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna Miotk » Archiwum bloga &#187; Pomiar efektów w Sabre Awards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricsman.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-2322</guid>
		<description>[...] edycji konkursu Sabre Awards. Oceniwszy tegoroczne zgłoszenia pod kątem pomiaru ich efektów, opisuje trzy błędy najczęściej występujące w odrzuconych [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] edycji konkursu Sabre Awards. Oceniwszy tegoroczne zgłoszenia pod kątem pomiaru ich efektów, opisuje trzy błędy najczęściej występujące w odrzuconych [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on About by Anna Miotk » Archiwum bloga &#187; Pomiar efektów w Sabre Awards</title>
		<link>http://metricsman.wordpress.com/about/#comment-2321</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna Miotk » Archiwum bloga &#187; Pomiar efektów w Sabre Awards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-2321</guid>
		<description>[...] Don Bartholomew został jurorem tegorocznej edycji konkursu Sabre Awards. Oceniwszy tegoroczne zgłoszenia pod kątem pomiaru ich efektów, opisuje trzy błędy najczęściej występujące w odrzuconych zgłoszeniach: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Don Bartholomew został jurorem tegorocznej edycji konkursu Sabre Awards. Oceniwszy tegoroczne zgłoszenia pod kątem pomiaru ich efektów, opisuje trzy błędy najczęściej występujące w odrzuconych zgłoszeniach: [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reach Makes a Better Impression by Andrew Laing</title>
		<link>http://metricsman.wordpress.com/2008/03/31/reach-makes-a-better-impression/#comment-2320</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Laing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 22:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricsman.wordpress.com/?p=30#comment-2320</guid>
		<description>Don, if I can add.  I agree with you on the value of a %reach, but it is not straightforward to calculate what is the total.  We often look at national coverage for clients over time within a representative sample of media.  But we discount an audience reach based on various factors such as prominence, placement, etc. (we swim against the current by looking for the SMALLEST number -- what I guess you might call "authentic" impressions), but then would that number be divided all possible people reached by the outlets?  Possibly, but I'm not sure if that fits the bill.  

I've been thinking for a while on a similar question as it pertains to comparing levels of media activity in different regions -- that is, providing a valid metric over time that says media in the North are more active on the topic than media in the South.  It's easy to say coverage/impressions was greater in one region than the next, but whether there was really more activity in the West versus the East is more complicated, because it requires standardizing in some way the total potential audience and/or newshole available.

Nonetheless, always love questions about methods and metrics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don, if I can add.  I agree with you on the value of a %reach, but it is not straightforward to calculate what is the total.  We often look at national coverage for clients over time within a representative sample of media.  But we discount an audience reach based on various factors such as prominence, placement, etc. (we swim against the current by looking for the SMALLEST number &#8212; what I guess you might call &#8220;authentic&#8221; impressions), but then would that number be divided all possible people reached by the outlets?  Possibly, but I&#8217;m not sure if that fits the bill.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been thinking for a while on a similar question as it pertains to comparing levels of media activity in different regions &#8212; that is, providing a valid metric over time that says media in the North are more active on the topic than media in the South.  It&#8217;s easy to say coverage/impressions was greater in one region than the next, but whether there was really more activity in the West versus the East is more complicated, because it requires standardizing in some way the total potential audience and/or newshole available.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, always love questions about methods and metrics.</p>
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		<title>Comment on To Win Industry Awards Proper Measurement Is Crucial by Don Bartholomew</title>
		<link>http://metricsman.wordpress.com/2008/04/18/to-win-industry-awards-proper-measurement-is-crucial/#comment-2319</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Bartholomew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:56:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricsman.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-2319</guid>
		<description>Hi Mark,

Thanks for reading, your comment and kind words.  I think your 2 in 5 estimate of 'easy to eliminate' entries is a good guesstimate.  Many of the entries I reviewed would have been given a 'C' in an undergraduate college course.  Pretty disappointing from an industry-wide perspective.  Perhaps a few of these companies should hire you to advise them on their award entries. :-)
Cheers, DB</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mark,</p>
<p>Thanks for reading, your comment and kind words.  I think your 2 in 5 estimate of &#8216;easy to eliminate&#8217; entries is a good guesstimate.  Many of the entries I reviewed would have been given a &#8216;C&#8217; in an undergraduate college course.  Pretty disappointing from an industry-wide perspective.  Perhaps a few of these companies should hire you to advise them on their award entries. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Cheers, DB</p>
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		<title>Comment on To Win Industry Awards Proper Measurement Is Crucial by Mark Weiner</title>
		<link>http://metricsman.wordpress.com/2008/04/18/to-win-industry-awards-proper-measurement-is-crucial/#comment-2318</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Weiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 03:32:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricsman.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-2318</guid>
		<description>Hi Don,

I'm always happy to find a new Metricsman post.  I couldn't agree more with your assessment of awards judging.  It is a great honor but it can also be a little discouraging to see how many entrants disqualify themselves by falling for the traps you've mentioned.  What most entry planners seem not to recognize is that the first order of business for every judging panel on which I've served is to weed out those that don't meet the most basic criteria such as "measurable objectives," "research undertaken" and "evaluation."  

As soon as judges see an objective like "generate significant buzz" or "creatively break through the media clutter" they know it's a dog and place it in the reject pile.  And when they turn to the "evaluation" section of the looseleaf and all find only clip listings or photocopied clips, they know that it's not a winner.

On the other hand, I've judged programs with budgets under $5,000 that included measures of meaningful business outcomes and they provide hope.

Given that these awards require a lot of preparation and resources beyond the entry fee, and given how much emphasis agencies place on winning them, you'd think they'd get the simple things right...In my experience, two in five are almost automatically disqualified for the reasons you mention.

You're a beacon of sanity, Don...keep your light shining brightly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Don,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m always happy to find a new Metricsman post.  I couldn&#8217;t agree more with your assessment of awards judging.  It is a great honor but it can also be a little discouraging to see how many entrants disqualify themselves by falling for the traps you&#8217;ve mentioned.  What most entry planners seem not to recognize is that the first order of business for every judging panel on which I&#8217;ve served is to weed out those that don&#8217;t meet the most basic criteria such as &#8220;measurable objectives,&#8221; &#8220;research undertaken&#8221; and &#8220;evaluation.&#8221;  </p>
<p>As soon as judges see an objective like &#8220;generate significant buzz&#8221; or &#8220;creatively break through the media clutter&#8221; they know it&#8217;s a dog and place it in the reject pile.  And when they turn to the &#8220;evaluation&#8221; section of the looseleaf and all find only clip listings or photocopied clips, they know that it&#8217;s not a winner.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I&#8217;ve judged programs with budgets under $5,000 that included measures of meaningful business outcomes and they provide hope.</p>
<p>Given that these awards require a lot of preparation and resources beyond the entry fee, and given how much emphasis agencies place on winning them, you&#8217;d think they&#8217;d get the simple things right&#8230;In my experience, two in five are almost automatically disqualified for the reasons you mention.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re a beacon of sanity, Don&#8230;keep your light shining brightly.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reach Makes a Better Impression by Don Bartholomew</title>
		<link>http://metricsman.wordpress.com/2008/03/31/reach-makes-a-better-impression/#comment-2313</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Bartholomew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 14:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricsman.wordpress.com/?p=30#comment-2313</guid>
		<description>Mariana,
Thanks for your thoughtful comment.  I believe you are thinking about it in exactly the right way.  -Don B</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mariana,<br />
Thanks for your thoughtful comment.  I believe you are thinking about it in exactly the right way.  -Don B</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reach Makes a Better Impression by Mariana Sarceda</title>
		<link>http://metricsman.wordpress.com/2008/03/31/reach-makes-a-better-impression/#comment-2312</link>
		<dc:creator>Mariana Sarceda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 03:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricsman.wordpress.com/?p=30#comment-2312</guid>
		<description>Hi DOn! You've really made a point. Sometimes, in PR we get so obsessed with numbers that we only want to hear the highest and most impressive one. However, more often than never, our advertisements or articles have a less signficant impact numerically speaking. I guess we should get acquainted with the idea that it's not a question of how many people can potentially read our article/ad but how many of our target readers actually paid attention to it. I'll keep this in mind next time I have to deal with statistcs and show results to my CEO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi DOn! You&#8217;ve really made a point. Sometimes, in PR we get so obsessed with numbers that we only want to hear the highest and most impressive one. However, more often than never, our advertisements or articles have a less signficant impact numerically speaking. I guess we should get acquainted with the idea that it&#8217;s not a question of how many people can potentially read our article/ad but how many of our target readers actually paid attention to it. I&#8217;ll keep this in mind next time I have to deal with statistcs and show results to my CEO.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Five PR Measurement Trends to Watch in 2008 by Mariana Sarceda</title>
		<link>http://metricsman.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/five-pr-measurement-trends-to-watch-in-2008/#comment-2307</link>
		<dc:creator>Mariana Sarceda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metricsman.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/five-pr-measurement-trends-to-watch-in-2008/#comment-2307</guid>
		<description>Thanks a lot for a great post. I specially agree with your first highlight and with the need for PR professionals to be accountable for the results in their area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks a lot for a great post. I specially agree with your first highlight and with the need for PR professionals to be accountable for the results in their area.</p>
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